Interview with Hina Jilani
Conducted by Michelle Stephenson
Editor's Note: The following are excerpts from an interview with Hina Jilani of Pakistan, conducted by Michele Stephenson, Coordinator of the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights program, "Witness," in October 1999. The interview has been adapted for publication in Human Rights.
Q: What were the shaping experiences of your childhood-how you grew up and your family environment?
A: I always had this feeling that if you see injustice, you have to speak out against it; otherwise you are not in a position to complain. So I used to feel very angry at people who complained about all that was wrong in our country, both at the social level and at the political level, but never really did very much about it.
I always felt that if there was something wrong and I didn't speak out, then I had no business complaining. If there is something to be corrected, then I should speak out against it. I've never been confident of my capacity to change things. . . . I didn't really realize that at some point in my life, I would be a part of a very strong human rights movement that would bring about the expectation of change.
Q: Given the . . . threats against your work, why do you [continue to] work so hard to fight unjust situations in Pakistan?
A: I'm sure that people who have grown up in the environment that I have would [believe] that this was the natural thing to do. That's why I feel that it's not extraordinary to speak out against injustice, to stand up and try to do something about all the sad and unfortunate things that happen around us. I don't think it's extraordinary-I think we are very ordinary people who are working in an extraordinary environment.
I think the reason why I felt that we needed to speak out came directly as an inspiration from what my father did. He was a person who spoke his mind. He was a politician, but he never compromised; he never thought of things in a manner [that] was expedient. So if he had to leave a political party that he had been affiliated with for a long time just because he didn't agree with their perception on minority rights, it was not a difficult decision: He felt it was important to speak about rights of minorities.
So I think I learned from him that speaking out is important and also that it doesn't really matter if you speak out. You'll have a little bit of trouble, but you always overcome that trouble. I've seen my father go to jail, so that kind of fear was never there . . . fear of reprisal was not there. And I think [my sister Asma and I] overcame that in our childhood.
Q: Why did you become an attorney?
A: I just wandered into law. It was never an intention or an ambition, that I wanted to become an attorney. . . . I wanted to work for people's rights. I was trained as a criminal lawyer. I was doing cases at a very professional level, and then came the martial law in 1977. And then came laws that were extremely discriminating against women.
Before this, [my sister and I] were a part of the political movements in Pakistan. Even as children, Asma and I had been participating in the political events in our country. We'd been in women's demonstrations. We'd been in political demonstrations. So it was not something that was new. But what was new was that I was in a profession. I was dealing with the victims very, very directly.
There were women coming to us who had become victims of a very discriminatory, very unjust law. As a lawyer, you can't just sit back and listen to people and think of it at a very theoretical level. You have to come out with solutions.
I was doing a lot of work with women in prisons. After this particular law came in, the involvement of women in the criminal justice system was much greater than ever before. The number of women in prison had swelled. The whole issue of custodial violence had become more of a serious concern. . . . A lot of things were happening to which I had to respond in a very practical manner. This is where I think . . . my work [moved] toward women's human rights.
But it was an interesting time because it was not just women's rights at that point. There was a martial law, against which a political movement for the restoration of democracy was going on. I was very much a part of that. It was a new perception of women's rights in a way, because I very strongly felt that women's rights could not be fought for individually. They had to be part of the larger human rights movement-a very political movement.
I'm happy to say that the human rights movement in Pakistan was triggered by the women's rights movement. Because [of this], . . . women's human rights issues have been a priority on the human rights agenda. And the right kind of sensitivity to women's rights issues is there in the human rights movement. It's a very cohesive movement in Pakistan.
I'm a human rights activist, but I could never be a human rights lawyer sitting at a desk. I have to go to court, that is something that inspires me most. To be able to go to court, to take a lot of cases, whether they're individual cases or collective rights cases-it gives me a lot of satisfaction. Even if I lose, it may not give me satisfaction, but it gives me the sense that I have to fight more. . . . There is a lot of frustration. The kinds of judges and the kind of judicial system that we work with are not the best environment to give you encouragement in the kind of work that we do.
Nevertheless, although our successes are few and far between, I think that they are very significant. Some of the successes that I've had in courts [have set] precedents that have helped women gain a lot of legal victories. I'm not saying that these have had very much of a social impact, but certainly, at the legal level, they have become precedents that we women can use in court. So that kind of satisfaction is there.
I love the work that I do.
